Welcome, Book Plug, Guest Intro

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the best of choir directors, conductors and vocal leaders who want to build stronger choirs, run better rehearsals, and create outstanding musical experiences. Welcome back to the choir director podcast with me, Rick Podcast. This is episode 34. I wanted to start today's show by talking about one of my previous guests' books, which has just come out, The Playful Choir by Jonas Rosmerson. And you may remember him on an earlier episode, and we talked about all kinds of things from warm-ups and games and challenges. And he has this amazing book that I wanted to give a little plug, really, because it's got some fantastic ideas in there for choir directors. So do check it out. I'll put the details in the show notes and you can have a look at the Playful Choir, which is now available. Today I'm joined by Zimfira Pilos, artistic director of the Toronto Children's Chorus and the University of Toronto Educator, specializing in vocal pedagogy for choirs. Zimfera has led major children's ensembles in Canada, founded Kazakhstan's first choir school, and worked internationally as a conductor, adjudicator, and clinician. And in this conversation, we explore how to develop healthy young voices, choose meaningful repertoire, build confident choir cultures, and help children make powerful music together.

Starting Over In Canada

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Well, a warm welcome to the show, Zinfera. It's so wonderful having you here all the way from Toronto in Canada. And uh you give us a little bit about your background because you're originally from Kazakhstan.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Well, thank you very much, Russell. It's such an honor to be part of your program, and I listen already some uh uh postcast and will recommend to my friends because it's so interesting to hear what people are saying. My name is Infirapoulos, uh, I am artistic director of Toronto Children's Chorus, and I teach course at the University of Toronto vocal pedagogy for young choirs, and I love it. Yes, I came from Kazakhstan uh at the end of 98 with my family, with my daughter and my husband, and start all over again at age 33. That was quite a journey. I didn't speak English and I didn't know even alphabet. And I have to I I've I have to uh learn so many things, uh even how to ride a car and computer and skip language and culture. That uh was a tremendous experience for me. I learned so much and pushed me out of comfort zone.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

Well that's good for everybody, I think. But what what made you what made you come come over from Kazakhstan?

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Well it's uh when Soviet Union collapsed, uh you uh had different uh different life and uh I had daughter Great Seven and uh we sort like we was not sure what will be next steps around and decided to move uh and only two countries actually uh were expecting people from former Soviet Union, it was New Zealand or Canada, and my husband engineer, and Canada at that time was looking for engineers. That's how we end up in Canada.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

And did you did you start your career? Um, because you're you know you're an award-winning conductor, and um uh you know you you've you've done so many amazing things in your career. You work primarily with children. Where did this all

Early Training And First Choir Mentor

SPEAKER_00 3:49

begin? Where did your music career begin? And why did you choose the path that you've taken?

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Uh it's my children's core conductor. Around age, I was probably nine or ten at the time. I started um um very early, like uh like all in our system, like you have to be seven years old to go to grade one and music school. So and I was not accepted to for from the first time. My parents uh took me to uh very special school for gifted children because I sang all the time at home and couldn't could figure out little melodies and little toy piano. Uh but the teachers told them that I can't really much pitch and sing and I have to do something else, believe it or not. But I love it so much, and they took me to the regular music school, which is quite intense in the system what I grow up. And our conductor was amazing, she was very strict, direct, but she gave us such a uh really amazing uh journey through the music, and I knew that I when I will grow up, uh grow up, I want to be her. And I was so inspired um by music we sang, and um it's music school, seven years, like it's about 10 hours a week. Uh like and then you go to music college uh if you're successful, it's another four years um study conducting uh conducting department, and then five years um conservatory. So and I was founder at a very young age of uh choir school.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

What was your it's interesting you you mentioned about playing on little keyboard um because that's that's one of my first memories uh for my own in my own musical journey. How old were you? Do you remember how old you were when you first were, you know, playing before school?

SPEAKER_01 5:53

I think like it's uh probably around four or five.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

Yeah. Yeah, it's funny. I it's it's isn't that an interesting thing? I've never come across anybody that said that before. So I I can really relate to that because I I I can remember sitting on my bedroom floor, and I don't know how old I was, but I I I was probably around four, maybe, maybe, maybe even slightly earlier, I don't know. And I just remember playing. I had a little a tiny little keyboard and I used to play on it, and I used to try and sing to match the sound that I was that I was playing, and that's my first memory of music. And it's it's interesting, isn't it? Because it really does start at a very young age. And what what is incredible about what you've what you've just said is that you were inspired by your music teacher. It was your music teacher that inspired you to do what you do now, and now the opposite is happening. You are inspiring other children to to do exactly the same thing. That must be an amazing feeling for you.

Playful Auditions That Remove Fear

SPEAKER_01 6:50

It is, and I am so sensitive for every child because I found like um I really think like if you can speak, you can sing, and if you can move, you can dance. And it's my job to help every child to find their voice. Uh and most of the time, like children come, if they're auditioning, uh they might be just really scared. And I remember my own feelings, like it's I was just so nervous that the lady who was singing for me, like and asked me to repeat, had such a beautiful voice and so big. And I thought, no way I can do this. Like, it's just like I was uh shocked and I couldn't repeat, and then I was not successful at my first edition. So, and that's why when child comes to the room, I tried to make this connection playful, and uh we do some voice games, we paint dinosaur with a voice. This front legs, back legs, and even tail. Uh so it is it is something like to distract the child, like this is not like exam, right? And like we do fishing or something, and then children just like you know open up and they have sparkly eyes and they're ready with you to do anything.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

And you obvious obviously have this this gift of being able to make children feel comfortable enough to make those noises because it's quite hard to make anyone make those noises. And I have to say, this is a first. I've never had dinosaur noises on my show before. So thank you for bringing that. But it it is it is interesting because you have to break the ice, don't you? When you when somebody walks into a room and it doesn't

Building A Safe Choir Community

SPEAKER_00 8:35

matter whether they're you know four four-year-old, ten-year-old, or fifty-year-old, or adults, you have to make them feel comfortable, and that's very difficult, I think.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

It it is very important. I think the first step, uh, if I uh teach a class at the University of Toronto, they ask me, like, what is the first step? And I will say to build this relationship uh in a choir, like a lot of people singing together in one room. To me, it's not a choir yet until it's a community, that everybody trusts each other, everybody together, and everybody feels safe and feel that their voice matters. Like uh in my rehearsals, like last rehearsal I had, like I have one hand after another, and they gave advice like the bar three, like the the soprano was flat. So, and the kids they feel that they own ensemble, the part of it, and they bring some ideas, sometimes like ideas from children, the best ideas for staging, for choreography.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

Oh really? So so uh so so you know how old are these are these kids that are telling you what to do now?

SPEAKER_01 9:45

Yes. And some of them, like uh last uh last season I had a boy who um now studying voice professionally. Um he was even writing IP symbols like uh in email uh after rehearsal, taking notes, and they're so curious and they want to become conductors. So I just teach them to be independent, and I think it's very important. Of course, uh I hear what they say, but I think it's so wonderful that they listen and they really like make comments and take notes and really think that they develop their skills, life skills, and they feel so comfortable also to have discussions with me about music. It's so interesting.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

You it is beautiful, and and it's it what it's interesting that you mention the word safe because I think a lot of people a lot of people throw this word around all the time. It's a safe environment, it's a safe community, it's a safe room. And you know, and I I understand where that's come from, but I also think it's important sometimes to really explain what that means because safe doesn't mean that you're going to get attacked by someone, it's not a physical thing. They might, but it but it's that's not what it means. We're talking about safe when we when we mean that it's okay to make mistakes, it's okay to be yourself in the room. This is why it's safe, because no one else is gonna judge you, no one else is gonna laugh at you. We are all in this together.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

Absolutely. I hear this word uh often and sometimes it's just like a word uh with no meaning. Uh if there is no, like I think every conductor has own idea of what it means to be safe. Uh, but I uh and it takes time uh is with children of different ages in a choir, like uh in a chamber choir, we have children from 11 to 17, quite a wide range. And it's a uh for me, like it's every choir I think is different, probably, but for me it's a leadership that children, uh older singers, experienced singers have a body, they hold, they have pencil, like they listen, they give little advice during the rehearsal and take care. But uh we really like speak about this, how to make everybody feel good and part of it. And also I tell them that senior age, because if child is 11 can produce sound of 17-year-old uh child and um teenager, uh and like just to build their step-by-step growing up, their voice, confidence and independence. Being independent, that's what I think only choirs who have a safe environment can do that.

Independence On Stage Without Conductor

SPEAKER_01 12:43

So, for example, some uh pieces I'm not conducting. So they just walk on stage. We were in Hong Kong and Singapore in July. Half of the program they performed without me being on stage. They don't have that a person who says, like, oh, like you are standing on the risers, not right way, like you have to move a little bit this way, and you to me, like they walk on stage and they have to make decisions. How they will stand, where the position, and like they changing from one piece to the next. Um, and like there is no adult on stage who will tell them what to do, and they have to listen and sing a cappella uh in different formations and have some choreography. So, and this trust, trust between singers, so strong, should be so strong.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

And that independence um helps them to gain presumably a lot of confidence on stage and a lot of self-belief in what they're doing, which is a wonderful thing for children, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Yes, it is. Uh I think it is also important for a while life because I um just in case um to have this kind of um to be brief and to open up to the audience. I think that they are they're not singing for me uh or pleasing the conductor. They have to always remember that this is what hard work they have behind their back, and this is like a deliver that you next step make it easy and connect to people. I uh love this uh South African uh I think uh expression. What comes from your mouth goes to the ear. Sometimes it can be so phenomenal, and but it doesn't touch you, it's perfect. Uh but what comes from the heart goes to the heart. When we don't reach that point, I think it's just a sound gorgeous, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

That's that's very moving. That's that's really quite something. I'm quite moved by that expression. Um it's it's must it must have been very difficult for you when you first started in Toronto, especially working with children. You've come from another country where the language is not your first language. It must have been difficult to communicate uh and very difficult to be understood. Um I think some people find it difficult to understand at the best of times, even with a with a native accent. So I'm sure I'm sure that was quite difficult. But it just goes to show that the the the power of music and communication within music, how important that is, um, and how that can go way beyond your natural language. Did you find there to be many challenges above that?

English Diction, Vowels, And Sound Tools

SPEAKER_01 15:55

Uh yes, it is, of course, like um even uh like the language one thing, it's the singing. I spent so much time learning about uh half of books singing in English. So who how I will know that you don't sing Rs uh before the consonant and all this new journey uh for me was so uh fascinating, like about voice and sound. And of course, uh I travel a lot, so I hear how like different parts of the world the vowel placement is quite a different. So I that what I hear like in some parts of the world the vowels forward and up, in some countries forward and down, but in some countries back and up and back and down. So like it's i I I'm a sound person, I love to work on sound, and um because my language was so limited, I used a lot of toys also. I can show you one, like I and for example, like uh when uh children singing with uh this space, like like my toy, or you do this the shape of the mouth shape of the mouth and like um or like something like this like the shendle diminuendo and uh yes it was journeying and I still working on it even after all these years. Um and uh like it's advice for anybody who have uh uh a new language, it's very important to put efforts to get to this a really detailed work um about language and uh pronounces and and some specific things. And leaving because we will I will I will not have some sounds in my language at all, right? Which uh I have to learn how to put my tongue and like uh height of the vowel and and and leaving everything behind in in Kazakhstan, you would have come across with some influences.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

I'm sure I'm sure your your folk influences and the influence influences of your country and the music that you had there played a big part. And it's interesting, again, you you know you talk about vowels because of course those vowel sounds are going to be completely different where you originated to where you where you are now. That's one of the things that always fascinates me. Um I've spoken about it a number of times uh on the show. About I I love travel, it's one of my my big passions, traveler music. And hearing different cultures doing different things and working with choirs of different cultures and different backgrounds in different countries, different communities is an incredible thing because you learned so much about music, about singing, about producing sound, as you were saying. Did you find that transition

Choosing Repertoire And Changing Vocal Colour

SPEAKER_00 19:20

between the two very difficult? Because I suspect it's all about being having a very closed vowel sounds to having those very open vowel sounds that are very Western, I think.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

Well, I think it's also like uh depends uh what uh particular repertoire. If it's a folk song, uh I was in Greece or like uh China, um or uh like different parts of the world when they sing in their folk music, there is certain influence which you keep that authentic sound. You will not change Bulgarian sound to sing with uh like classical Western model. Uh what I try personally with children what I work in, like they have quite diverse repertoire from 11th century to pop music, and uh but it shouldn't sound the same. So we're singing some pieces with other tones, uh, and I get to the other tone singing uh on purpose, that children will um understand, the young people will understand that one pitch is has all these partials, and uh and when they sang other tones, they realize that this is really fascinating, the instrument uh and the placement, like how open space, if we sing in some um pieces from Bulgaria or like Slovenia, uh they're they're absolutely different touch to the color and the sound and the vowels. So and that's that's fascinates me, like to have world music that every piece should sound different. It shouldn't sound like one choir singing this. But if you go to sing um we're singing Maller 8 uh with the Romte Children chorus uh this uh season four times uh through the season with two different orchestras, and uh yes, this is certain sound, like to sing with orchestra and a really like fertissima marcato, uh, and actually like a quite a certain sound and enunciation to sing with orchestra, like a trumpet kind of sound we need to create that, and I have to figure it out how to teach children to transform from some uh world music sound uh of Tracy Wong piece uh to this kind of sound.

SPEAKER_00 21:50

It's that's uh yeah, that's quite something because I mean Marler is is you know a very different kind of sound to native. Music, for example, world music to pop music to contemporary music. It's like chalk and cheese. They're two completely different worlds. I've sung them all or eight myself, and it's it's huge. And to get to get kids to be able to do that, and to be able to then say, right, now we're gonna do something from the Middle East. We're gonna do some Middle Eastern music, or you're gonna do some Asian music or African music, you know. Um but I think that the education we can give children is is extraordinary through music because of all of the different possibilities that we have. And then and and you know, an esteemed conductor like yourself will have that knowledge, will have the experience and expertise to be able to teach different types of music. Do you have a favourite type of music? Because you've you've spoken about many different types already.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

I like uh the different colour like in the program. I think it's a good thing too many set and different opportunities cards, but sometimes it's just like a classical set, right? Um I think uh uh what it helps uh singers I'm working with that they're independent and flexible. Flexible with the voice too. So if they go study voice professionally, it doesn't build muscle memory in just one way and reach it. Uh they are so flexible, they uh whoever will work with them after uh they adapt so quickly. And their instrument's still growing, so it's I don't think it's uh should be just like one way of singing.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

Yeah, so this this summer that's just just passed, I I had the pleasure of working with 24 students between the ages of 11 and 17, and they came together for a summer camp which I ran, and some of them had never really done anything on a stage before as a soloist. And I got them to I got about nine of them, I think I got up to do solo numbers, some who have had no experience of performing on their own before, and I brought a number of uh colleagues in to work with them on acting through song and uh being able to blend, uh, and we worked on ensemble music as well. So we did about one hour, a one-hour set of all different music, pop music, contemporary music, um, musical theatre music. And what was extraordinary about it was, and what I love most about what I do is when we inspire young people and something suddenly clicks, something changes in them, and they've gone from somebody who is very shy hiding in the back to suddenly realizing they can do something and do it well, then you give them the opportunity to step up and show people what they can do, and then they stand up in front of an audience and deliver it, and the audience go crazy, and they've suddenly got this confidence that they never had, and you watch them change, you watch them evolve, you watch them grow up from being this shy little mouse at the back to standing up with an audience that is you know clapping and screaming and on their feet, you know, not because it's just uh a you know young girl or on stage that's done this, but because they can see what has suddenly occurred, it's suddenly in the eyes, you can see it in the eyes, they've suddenly got this passion, this confidence that they but their belief that they can now do it. That's an extraordinary thing, and it's something that I I love, and I and clearly you you must do as well because you must see it all the time in your choirs.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

This is the most important point for me, yes. Um, I

Confidence, Life Change, And Choir Purpose

SPEAKER_01 26:28

think maybe this is not about uh competitions, medals, or anything else. Uh, if a child comes to my choir, who really can have eye clock and speak loud enough to be heard. Now I have for example like a child uh who was like this four years ago when I came to Toronto Children's Chorus, and today she's a head chorister, she is have a voice, she sang solo in our on our international tour, and her eyes like shining, and I know that music and this choir transform her life, and all of them go through this journey, and that transformation that's what made me going like every rehearsal every week because I see this transformation, and music is so powerful, and if it's the right environment, children will ever child. Maybe it's take time for some of them, but they will all go out of this box. And I don't want them to sit in a box even with a beautiful ribbon. I want them out. I want them like shine and confidently look and speak and have a voice, find their voice, personal voice and personality. Um I think it's very important for their life uh that they carry this uh light which they found in the children's choir through their life.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

Yeah, it's a wonderful thing. And it it it's uh interesting you brought up about competition because you've you've adjudicated quite a lot of competitions in your years and your time. Do you tend to work primarily um adjudicating youth choirs or do you work with adults as well? What's your where's your sort of speciality? Because you you've recently, uh and congratulations, have recently won the 2026 Lifetime Uh Artistic Uh Achievement Award at the World Choir Festival in Hong Kong, which is extraordinary.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

I think it is really um I I I have uh because I think that's such an important part of development in life and uh as uh part of the uh person uh about phonapedic methods of voice development, uh which is not translated uh from Russian. Um and I'm really curious about also like uh a very deep knowledge about voice as almost like as a doctor, like I want to know what's happening to these vocal chords from this age to this age. What kind of exercises grade one to three have to sing to compare to grade seven? So it is whole I think all young conductors uh who I'm meeting, like they all eager about this high-level professional choir. Yes, uh fantastic, but this is a whole journey because you have children who have no idea how to make sound, how to grace, how to develop their ear training. Like uh if you will be able to do this, it's a fantastic foundation to conduct.

SPEAKER_00 30:14

It's a journey. It is a journey.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

It's a journey. Like it's uh when I came to Canada, I didn't have any language, so I started from I I knew that it's very important to go through very um uh beginning steps, like with the kindernes, uh kindergarten, and I learn all these songs. I studied all the books, uh, and I learned all these little songs. Teddy bear, teddy bear, turn around. And I have to, I have to know all this uh to be part of this culture. I can't come and change country culture, like it's it's not uh great. Like I have to join these amazing people and bring some um some knowledge I have from my background, but I have to adapt. Uh, and I have to be like offering this uh in a certain way, like uh open open-minded way.

SPEAKER_00 31:13

I think a lot of young people uh it's interesting you were talking about conducting and so on. I think a young a lot of young people will go into conducting

Humility On The Podium And Giving Back

SPEAKER_00 31:20

and choral directing thinking it is all about the the profile side of things, about getting starting here and getting getting to the top as quickly as possible, getting on that podium and and conducting in major festivals uh around the world. And it and it just isn't like that. I mean you've got to be very lucky if if that is the case. It can happen, of course, you can get some fame quite quickly. But actually, for the vast majority of professional conductors, it is a journey that never ends. You know, we are continually doing what we do, and it's not about the accolade, it's about the the lives you can change doing it, and the learning that we learn and that we teach to inspire others. And, you know, we all reach steps along our way, but it is all about that continual journey. You know, I I would much rather be in, you know, the marathon than the sprint. I mean that's you know, cliche, but it but it really is because um, you know, I I'm incredibly passionate about what I do, I love what I do, I love every minute of my working life. It doesn't feel like work because it's in my soul. And of course I get to talk to wonderful people like yourself, but you're you we feel the same. It's a it's a it's it feels like a small community when we talk to choir directors who are working at a very high level, but we're all doing it because we love and we're passionate about what we do.

SPEAKER_01 32:45

Absolutely. This is uh that's the whole point. It's I think it's not um it's not a joke for me uh as you say. I just think it's um expecting uh it's not like uh it's my life. It's my life, it's my mission of helping children, helping uh people, and I'm helping uh everybody because uh students who is was in my class in Hong Kong or like uh Singapore, like writing a letter, oh like you teach us uh this uh little children's song, like I I get the job in school. Can you like find that score for me? Like can you remind me? So or like somebody just asking to uh find um the composer. We have uh uh a lot of composers coming to Canada and from different parts of the world, uh, just to help people to connect, to connect with others. And uh I think it's our mission uh in a way, like uh such a beautiful mission, and to throw the light on any level, I think it's the same purpose. It's a professional choir or children's choir and youth choir working with people, it's so uh such an honor.

SPEAKER_00 34:17

It is, it is and it's wonderful, as you say, it's you know, working working with so many different types of choirs. You know, when I when I've ever got to well do it quite often, but when I collaborate with other choirs or I get to conduct other choirs or run a workshop for a choir or you know, particularly in a in a different country, you you gain so much out of it from both sides. Um and it is it is a wonderful experience, and you always come away feeling very humble and you feel you feel that you've you feel that you've done some good. Um which is what it's about. It's it's it's not about everything else, it's it's about what you can do to change and improve others. Um it's a wonderful thing to be able to to do that. Um something you love, something where you can make a difference as part of your of your life. Do you think that choir directors um sometimes prioritize invalidly? Do you think that they they prioritize the wrong thing when they are working with their choirs? What is the most important thing you should prioritize?

SPEAKER_01 35:29

I just beautiful lesson conversation that you scare people who are from that one who was founded with the choir. So for me, it was such an iconic figure uh how he's booked his science for me. And he said I was gonna uh conductor what they think he said there's two types of choirs and conductors. I don't know if I always try to remember that. Um one group of conductors who uh use choir as a vehicle for your for their career and the second group when conductor able and have courage to step down from the podium and be part of the ensemble. And that was such a uh big strong comment, and I always try to remember like to step down from the podium, being humble and uh really serve singers through the music.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

Yeah, that's really interesting, isn't it? That's a that's a very interesting way of thinking about it. Because I think I think you do. I think I think for a lot of conductors, they stand on the podium and that's their moment. They're showing off the choir, but they're showing off they're they're on stage at the front of the stage. When you step down and let the choir do the work and deliver it, and you just step to the side, it becomes about them. And ultimately it's about them anyway. I mean, as far as I'm ever concerned, you know, you have a job as a choir director to train them to get them to the standard, and then it's up to them to deliver to the audience. You know, you've got your back to the audience the whole time when you're conducting. It's up to the it's it's the choir that's performing.

SPEAKER_01 37:28

Oh yeah, I he was my mentor, and um that's all uh doing and my my teachers at Bacco. Like I'm so grateful to all people I met um on my journey, and uh it's fascinating. Like these life lessons, life lessons is music alone, uh just such a beautiful world we are living in.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

What what's next for you? What's your what's your vision? What's your ambition? What would you like to see happen next?

SPEAKER_01 38:05

Trying to give back, like uh uh as much as I can. Um uh I've conducted uh Hamilton Children's Choir for over 20 years and Young Voices Toronto in Toronto 15 years, and I had my assistant, Melanie Tays, who was with me 14 years in Hamilton. So I gave her space. Like it's I moved to TCC because uh uh Toronto children called Series Broadway went back home to New Zealand. So and when I came to Canada, Jim Bartle was uh person who gave me first opportunity. I was assistant conductor for training choir um 27 years, 25 years ago. And it's big uh like a big circle. I came back to Toronto Children's Course, uh took them after COVID and giving back um in uh every way I can because all these opportunities I had uh because of this organization. But for me, uh to build in Toronto uh organization where every choir can join, uh every child despite uh their financial situation, make connection with uh deep connection with Toronto District School Board, uh with schools, connect uh helping schools as much as possible. And um really like just sharing, sharing and giving.

SPEAKER_00 39:42

Yeah, that's wonderful. It's been it's been amazing talking with you today. Um I've I've learned so much. I've been completely inspired by lots lots of things that you've said today. So thank you, thank you so much for joining me on the show. Uh, and I really hope we'll get to meet one day and work together at some point.

SPEAKER_01 39:59

Thank you so much. That was such a pleasure, and the questions were so fantastic to keep me thinking, and I will think about all this discussion.

SPEAKER_00 40:12

Thank you so much for listening to the Choir Director Podcast. It's been wonderful having you here today. And if you found today's conversation valuable, please

Closing Thanks And Listener Actions

SPEAKER_00 40:19

take a moment to leave us a rating and review. It genuinely helps us to reach more choir directors and grow this community together. And don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. And if you know a fellow director who'd benefit from today's conversation or any of the amazing guests we've had on the show, please share it with them. It means the world to us and it could make a huge difference to them. To stay connected between episodes so you never miss a thing and receive exclusive content. Do join our mailing list. The link is in the show notes. And if you have a question about today's topic or any of the topics that we're covering, perhaps a question to our guests, or something you'd love us to explore on a future episode, you can email the studio or leave us a voicemail. Both links are waiting for you in the show notes. Well, thanks again for being part of the Choir Director Podcast. I'm Russell Scott, and until next time, goodbye.